How the Texas Medical Association is Handling Apple's Email Privacy Changes

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This is a podcast episode titled, How the Texas Medical Association is Handling Apple's Email Privacy Changes. The summary for this episode is: <p>This week on The Member Engagement Show, we are sharing a session from our 2021 Super Forum that includes Taryn Morrissey Buckley, Debra Heater, and Michael O'Neill. Taryn is a CSM here at Higher Logic, Debra is an Outreach Programs Manager, and Michael is a Business Analyst, both at Texas Medical Association. Their chat focuses on the Apple privacy changes and how they can affect email marketing campaigns. Debra and Michael share how these changes helped the Texas Medical Association understand what successful email marketing truly means. Listen now!</p><p><br></p><p>Slides from this session are available here:</p>
Changes Apple made to their privacy
02:01 MIN
What our current baseline metrics are, and how those might become less important
04:51 MIN
Personas and engagement points
02:43 MIN
The scoring rubric
01:33 MIN
Methods to boosting your email click rates
01:31 MIN

Beth Arritt: Welcome to the Member Engagement Show with Higher Logic, the podcast for association professionals looking to boost retention, gain new members, and deepen member involvement. Each episode, I'll bring on some experts; we'll talk shop about engagement, and you'll walk away with strategies proven to transform your organization. I'm Beth Arrit, an association evangelist with over 25 years experience in marketing and member engagement. And I'm so happy you're here. Now let's start the show. This week, I'm excited to share another session from our 2021 Super Forum Conference. Our very own Customer Success Manager, Taryn Morrissey, talks with Debra Heater, TMA Alliance and Outreach Programs Manager, and Michael O'Neill, Business Analyst at the Texas Medical Association. They talk about how Apple privacy changes helped the Texas Medical Association level set what successful email marketing truly means. As always, let us know what you think about this episode over on HUG, or in the LinkedIn post for this episode.

Taryn Morrissey: Hi, everyone. I'm Taryn. I'm Customer Success Manager at Higher Logic, and I've been working with Debra Heater and Michael O'NeilL for many years now, so I have the pleasure of presenting with them today. We're going to go over what Apple privacy changes are, and ways that these changes may affect your email marketing programs. We'll talk about how Texas Medical Association has really set themselves up for success, by implementing some new kind of tactics within Informs, to be able to quantify and measure their success in new ways. So without further ado, I'd like to hand it over to Texas Medical Association's dynamic duo, to introduce themselves, and talk to us about who TMA is, who your members are, and perhaps some of the ways that Informs, as an email marketing program, has assisted you in reaching some of your email marketing goals, and your overall organizational goals as well.

Debra Heater: Great, thanks, Taryn. I'm Debra Heater. I've been with TMA for the past 14 years. We are a physician member organization. I've been the primary email marketer, power user, whatever you want to call me, for the last 10 years with Informs; and Taryn has been my guiding light for quite some time. Our audience is made up of physicians, residents, medical students, staff of physicians, some other staff that are kind of local grassroots, here in the state of Texas; so we are a statewide organization. And our primary messaging focuses on member retention, member recruitment, advocacy, and just general medical news in the state of Texas and some national. And Michael, I don't know if there something you want to add to what we do.

Michael O'Neill: I'm just going to say my name is Michael O'Neill, and I'm on the Technical Team at the Texas Medical Association, so my involvement in this whole process is usually trying to make the data fit what we want to do in our campaigns and our market. And so, I just am really there to implement whatever Debra tells me to implement, as best I can.

Debra Heater: That's true. Yeah.

Michael O'Neill: It is what it is. But, yeah.

Debra Heater: Yes. Does that answer all your questions?

Taryn Morrissey: Yes, I think so.

Debra Heater: Okay.

Taryn Morrissey: All right. So, Apple privacy changes. It's a heavy topic. I know not everyone who's listening in right now is up to speed on what Apple changed with their latest updates this fall; so I'll do my best to answer the who, what, where, when, why, and how, just to give you some background. Long story short, is that when Apple announced that they were making changes to their latest software this fall, privacy was a key feature. One of the standout updates was related to the mail app, which is the default email client on the iPad, the iPhone, the Mac, the watch. Ultimately, the two most prominent changes brought by the mail privacy protection involve the industry standard 1x1 invisible tracking pixel that email service providers such as Informs and Real Magnet use, and also the client IP address. So, the Apple users that enable the mail privacy protection will stop senders like us from knowing who used the tracking pixel, from knowing when their recipients are opening the messages. And they're going to do this by pre- loading and caching all of the images in a message when it's delivered to the device. So as a sender, you will see kind of skewed open times for your recipients, because that downloading and that cashing of images happens when the email hits the inbox. So this is going to prevent you, from a sender, from knowing exactly what time a message was opened, if it was actually opened or not, or if it was kind of a proxy open. You're also going to lose any geolocation and demographic information for that recipient, since their IP address will be hidden. So as an email marketer, what this means, when they're caching your images, downloading your images, is that you may see inflated open rates. And as you can imagine, from a software such as Informs or Real Magnet, once we broke this news to our customers, I heard from many customers all at once wanting to know," Okay, what are we going to do? What are some things that we can put into place that will help us get the metrics that we want?" So I'll kick this over to Debra. She can kind of tell you what her story was with coming to me.

Debra Heater: Well, and so, most people who are in email marketing with Higher Logic, they got notifications just like we did. So every user in our admin portal was getting notifications that there was going to be an Apple change, including my boss. And so, she was emailing me kind of, not in a panic, but," Do we need to panic?" was kind of her question." What do we need to do? How is this going to affect our reporting and our statistics?" Because we do rely heavily on that Informs reporting to make decisions based on targeting, content, all sorts of things. So, it really was kind of a big change, because we do have a lot of Apple users. So of course, I called Taryn, and was like," Okay, what next?"

Taryn Morrissey: Oh, yeah. Exactly. Yep. So, we have a list here, and we kind of... I rolled through this with Debra as a starting off point, just to say," Listen, we need to take inventory on what you're using, because all of these features are going to be affected by this change." Luckily for them, not all of them were in use; but it was important for us to explore all of them, to see if there was any potential pitfalls, the first one being AB testing. One of the components of AB testing allows to you to send to winner, based on open rates. So if, for example, you're testing a subject line, and you wanted to know which one had the highest open rate to determine which one was better; that's going to be affected by this change. We have a feature called Send Time Optimation, where we look at the historical opens of a user, to determine the best time to send to that user. So at first, when this rolls out, it won't have much effect on the historical data. But as time goes on, it's going to be looking at the proxy opens, rather than the actual opens for those Apple users who are using the native Apple email client. If you're tracking the devices people are opening on, this would be especially important if you're using device data to determine how you're going to design your email; so that's something to consider. Reporting in general, as well; are you monitoring deliverability? And what I mean by that is, I know for me, as a best practice for the customers, I'm always saying," Look at the domains that are not opening your emails, because they may be having deliverability issues, or blocking your email, et cetera." That will be harder to tell with this, especially if they're just going to register opens automatically. And then, in TMA's case, they are masters of the Informs marketing automation campaigns, with some of the biggest campaigns I've ever seen. If you're using opens as a decision step within your marketing automation campaigns, that's also going to have significant can implications, depending on the types of users that you are sending to. Lastly, there's also an Auto Resend feature, which resends your mailing to those who have not opened, however many days later after the initial mailing is sent. And for those cases, you're going to see it being sent to less email addresses than you previously may have. So that's just... Those are some things to consider. Debra, kicking it back to you.

Debra Heater: Oh gosh. Okay. So, we were sent to look at what our baselines are, basically our statistical reporting. What are our opens? What do we do? What new data can we leverage, right, in a more meaningful way? So basically, I just looked at what parts from that previous slide are going to affect us. We do AB testing, but we don't send on the winner. We did heavily use Send Time Optimization. We don't anymore. We send at a static time now, so that wasn't going to be affected either. Really, the only thing that's affecting us right now are the campaigns. So, we used to run about five different campaigns, monthly campaigns; but those have slowed down quite a bit due to COVID. So we're going to be reintroducing them over the next year; so this is definitely something where we need to, I don't know, shore up our data, and figure out where we're at today, so that we can responsibly report to our bosses the right data.

Taryn Morrissey: Right.

Debra Heater: Yep.

Taryn Morrissey: And would you say that you historically have relied on open rates, as a number to present upward to executives and things like that?

Debra Heater: Absolutely. Yeah. It's a very important statistic. I imagine it's going to be less important in the near future, so...

Taryn Morrissey: Right. So with this, our job here was really to figure out, what is the constant, moving forward? Because open rates won't be as relied upon when you're reporting out to anyone internally. So, what are some of the data points that remain unchanged, despite that inflation of open rates? The short answer is, your end goal never changed. Your end goal is still going to be that you're wanting to support your members, and see them engage, and what does engagement mean to you? So I took it upon myself to kind of dig in further with TMA, and determine, what are other ways or things that we can implement to help quantify, I guess, that engagement, in more meaningful and advanced ways? But in the end, if your email marketing efforts are ultimately supporting your members, you're encouraging them to engage, you're encouraging them to renew and be a brand champion, then you're doing a great job. In the case of Debra's boss, we want to be able to show her year- over- year data. Right? So, the beautiful part about your marketing automation platforms, is that the history is intact. As a best practice, you can record your past six to 12 months of delivery open and click- throughs. In this particular image, where we were looking at prior to September, knowing that Apple was rolling out sometime on September; but we want to do this for their whole account as a whole. But then also, I know TMA in particular, has a large all- member mailing; so that was a very important one to do for as well, to just get a benchmark, a baseline, for that particular mailing. But in general, if you have equivalent things that you do year- over- year, regardless of your open percentages, your click- throughs and your conversions, you have those numbers. You know how many people converted; and those, you can say," Last year we promoted in this way, and we have had X number of people register. This year, we did X, Y, and Z, and we had this many people register." So those things remain unchanged. The open rates are less tied to the actual, the dollar values and things like that. The next thing that we looked at, was something that I don't believe Debra, you can correct me if I'm wrong; but we decided to go a different path down. But one of the ideas was, we thought about cutting ties with our unengaged members. And I know this is like super scary for most associations to do; but we created this data point in Informs; it's there if we need it. And we know we can adjust it if we want to. But what we queried was," Show me everybody between March 1st and September 1st in Informs, who had a minimum of 10 emails sent and opened zero." And the idea behind this is, using this as a" do not send to," or a suppression list, once the Apple changes take effect, so that you are preventing these from becoming part of that inflated open rate number, really. You're just excluding them from that right from the get go. And then, Google Analytics, I know you were using. Talk to me a little bit about your website, and how we came to another idea, another tactic, that you were able to implement within Informs here.

Debra Heater: So, we turned off the Google Analytics tracking, because Google Analytics just does that on our website, anyway; so we get what we need. That comes from our daily newsletter, and any other mailings that we send out; we get that from Google. So I turned that off, and turned on Web Tracking, so we could see how are people engaging beyond the email; and maybe that would tell us something. And we just turned it on, so I don't know if there's any real data to look at just yet.

Taryn Morrissey: So one of the things that interested me about your website, was that you were... You hosted, for your largest mailer, which is the Texas Medicine Today, you had a page on there, or more than one page, that was associated with that particular mailer. I believe housing some, if not all of the content from the mailing. Is that right?

Debra Heater: Yes.

Taryn Morrissey: Okay.

Debra Heater: So, it rotates through. Every day we update it; but yes, there is a static page on the website.

Taryn Morrissey: So the beauty of having this data point as a new data point moving forward, is that if you're not able to determine open rates accurately, you are able still to determine people who went to those pages on your website, the TMT pages which we've tagged here in that image. And not only that, determine the users who maybe didn't go from an informed email, that have the cookie on their browser, and visited the TMT pages on their own. So, you could actually theoretically take your... You could make a list of people who did not open, for example, TMT, over the past X number of issues, and combine that with a web tracking group of people who did visit the TMT pages; and be able to determine that these people are still engaging in a meaningful way, they are just coming in from a different angle. They're not necessarily coming in from email marketing, but they're still reading your content. So that's where that value lies with the web tracking. So you're able to take that to the next level in a more advanced way, to be able to say," Okay, our email marketing efforts are successful. Our content is valuable. We are able to see it through another way.

Debra Heater: Right. Not just through the opens. Yeah.

Taryn Morrissey: Exactly. So we have that in place now. And then, this was really interesting to me. So, Debra and I got to a point where we were having these discussions fairly regularly, and I noticed that they were not utilizing Scoring in Personas within Informs; at least, not in Informs. But Debra told me that they had created personas, but they live in iMIS, which is their AMS. And that at that point, Debra connected me to Michael; because I wanted to know how we would be able to get that iMIS data into Informs, so we could actually have some more meaningful engagement points within the system. So Debra and Michael, can you talk to us a bit about these personas: what they mean, how you ultimately landed on breaking them down into these three groups, perhaps?

Debra Heater: Many years ago, gosh, maybe five years ago, we engaged with Viv Swertinski and Chris, I don't remember his last name. They came down to Austin, and we had a large focus group from the association, that talked about our data and our membership, and how we could find something that made people stand out. Right? Put people in buckets, so that we could market to them a little bit more effectively. And we found that with physicians in Texas, it is all about where they practice medicine. So whether they're a small practice physician, or they're in a large group as an employed physician in a hospital, those are very different settings, and they need very different things from us as an association. So, we came up with these three Stanley Staff Physician, who is in a medium to large group physician. He clocks in, he clocks out; he sees patients. He doesn't handle any of the business end of the practice. Obviously, Dr. Decision Maker is that person; he's the CEO of the practice. He makes hiring decisions. He purchases equipment; he runs the day- to- day. He also sees patients. And then we have Small Practice Pat, who is a small practice physician, who does everything as well; does not have the support of a large group and/ or clinic or hospital to help them with management or purchasing or anything like that. So we found that these were the three buckets that we can market to now. And I don't know, Michael, do you have anything to add to that part?

Michael O'Neill: I just want to going to say that prior to reaching out to Informs, we had meeting upon meeting, where we stared at Excel sheets and pivot tables as long as we could, to try and make sense of a bunch of demographic data; because that's what you usually have. Right? You have some activity and demographic data. It wasn't until we reached out to Informs with Chris and Viv, and had our own sort of internal focus group, where we got a bunch of staff at TMA from different departments, to get together to talk about their interactions, that we realized that what we really need to know is not demographic data; it's something else that determines what these people care about. And it turns out, it was really the environment that they work in. So I would just encourage anyone to take a step back from demographic data sometimes, and think about it in a different way, which is how Informs really helped us to come up with these three buckets.

Debra Heater: Yeah.

Taryn Morrissey: And ironically, you had these created for five years, but you didn't have them in the system till just recently.

Debra Heater: Yeah. We didn't use them in Informs at all.

Taryn Morrissey: Yep.

Debra Heater: We used them as target groups, but not as a data point to look at. So we did have them built as target groups, but we were only targeting them in emails and stories.

Michael O'Neill: We definitely messaged to them, but you're right; we did not analyze their behavior.

Taryn Morrissey: Right.

Michael O'Neill: And I'm glad we're starting to do so.

Taryn Morrissey: Definitely. And as far as, since it was already existing in iMIS, the process was very quick, I would say. I don't know how long it took you, Michael, but I remember, I think it was like the same day-

Michael O'Neill: You tell her.

Taryn Morrissey: Where you just said," Oh yeah, I can get those into a target group." And here we were.

Michael O'Neill: Yeah.

Debra Heater: Well, it led us to engagement scoring, which I know you're going to talk about next.

Michael O'Neill: Yep.

Debra Heater: But that was something we were using even before we did this. Right? So we had the bucket, but we used it to leverage scoring, so that we could better help our members when they called or emailed or had questions, or, during membership renewal season. It's a very good tool.

Taryn Morrissey: Yeah. So the scoring really interested me also; because it was something you had created a really impressive scoring rubric that didn't exist in Informs. And also, for the most part, excluded Informs' mailing metrics. So within that feature, you can either measure your engagement by mailing metrics, or you can do it by a target group. So for this case, you were able to get these scores into target groups. Can you explain your scoring rubric a little bit us, and how you came up with this, and anything else that might be pertinent?

Michael O'Neill: Sure. Again, I should just reiterate that this particular view here is used more on an individual basis, rather than as a tool for marketing broad groups of people. But someone might call... If someone called in; if this doctor called in, they would pull this card up, and know how they're engaging, and therefore know how to talk to them or where to direct them. The categories themselves came from several departments that we spoke to that told us," These are what physicians are doing. And the physicians that do these things tend to renew or tend to not renew." And that I was able to pull, based on actual data from our AMS. And so, we can take, for example, if they went to meetings or if they did continuing education, or if they donated to our PAC. You can take that activity, and then from there, you can weight it to make it say whatever is you want it to say. For us, if you just take those scores, that's pure engagement. But for us, what we really wanted to know is, are they likely to drop or less likely to drop membership? And so, this is more a score... The adjusted score you see on here, is more a score of drop risk or renewal likeliness.

Taryn Morrissey: Yeah.

Michael O'Neill: So that's really where all of this came from. And I was able to pull all of this using programming languages; but all of this should be available in your AMS via Informs target groups as well.

Taryn Morrissey: We hear from associations all the time that member retention is the number one goal. And so, when you're saying at risk, you mean at risk for renewal. So again, this is supporting member retention, which is also what your email marketing efforts are doing, inherently. What you're able to do... So, what really interested me, once we brought these data points in Informs; so the scoring also tied to target groups, where A through D were representing the various scores as they lived in iMIS. And so, they're just tied to different target groups within iMIS. We then compare that to the personas that we've established with Informs; and now we have this nice grid, where we are able to see, for example, Stanley Staff Physicians who are fall into the A category, which ties into automatically, target groups. Informs will automatically create target groups based on this rubric that you see here, the grid that you see here. So you can target these people differently than you would target for example, the D Small Practice Pats, who are at risk, and you're trying to retain. Right? So you might have a different nurturing campaign for those 6, 000 people than you do for these 324 individuals that you see up here. While the historical benchmarks and the web tracking are really going to help you get a handle on metrics, as far as Apple privacy changes goes; this really brings a new element of surprise. For me, you were able to kind of remove the mailing, the Informs mailing metrics from this, and have a new kind of holistic view, a new ability to track member retention, member engagement in a whole new way. Anything you'd like to add?

Michael O'Neill: Just that the beauty of this is you can take, let's say, the Stanley Staff Physicians that scored an A, and you can separate them, and then go actually see what they are doing, and how they're interacting, either Informs or just in your database. And once you determine that, then you can maybe use that to determine how to message the Ds in the same persona.

Taryn Morrissey: Right.

Michael O'Neill: Because in theory, that same persona cares about similar things. And so, maybe if you tailor your message to things that we know the A's care about, the D's will be more likely to start opening and renew it.

Taryn Morrissey: Right.

Michael O'Neill: That's what is very exciting about this combination of personas and scoring.

Taryn Morrissey: Right. So just by making a few tweaks, we're able to get even more meaningful data, in general. So, one thing that I just want everyone to bear in mind, as you see your numbers evolve, and you look at the tools that you have available to you, just remember that opens were never a perfect science. They're typically your highest volume metric, and so that's something that we all cling to; but all the other metrics that you look at, even if they're further down the food chain, they're actually more telling of how effective your programs are. And they're more telling of your conversions, and where the money is. So, in the case of TMA, turning to the things that actually are tighter metrics to your strategy, to your renewals, your registrations, like your engagement scores, is a better kind of tactic, in that you're really tying member engagement back to your email marketing efforts. And you're looking at more narrower data that's much closer to your pot of gold. And maybe that's a good thing. So I just wanted to say thank you to Deborah and Michael, for bringing this particular strategy to light, and kind of working through this with me, as we kind of navigated the Apple privacy changes together. It looks like we have a question for Michael. Michael, are you using R or Python for scoring?

Michael O'Neill: Neither. We're using, for the most part, SQL as the database language. If you're talking about the text, our public website, I believe that's written in C#, but I am not the one that actually writes that. But yeah, we're usually pulling the data using Microsoft SQL and SQL Server; because that is where our data is hosted.

Taryn Morrissey: Is the open rate affecting email only, or also social media and website usage?

Debra Heater: Great question. I am not on the team that tracks social media and website usage, but I don't know, Taryn, have you had that question come up with the Apple mail changes?

Taryn Morrissey: I believe it would only be affecting the native email client on the Apple device, but I am not 100% sure on that.

Michael O'Neill: I have not noticed, or been told of any website change. So I don't think it's affecting web traffic. And I cannot speak to the social media either.

Debra Heater: We track it in Google Analytics. So I think that they would alert me if something was drastically changed, they would let me know. I haven't heard anything that's been of note.

Taryn Morrissey: Here's a good one. How much attention have you been placing on click rate? Are there methods you've used to boost your emails' click rates?

Debra Heater: Click rates are very important. Let's just say that, because that's active engagement. Opening could be a view, a preview. It could be now, Apple mail just opening it for them, and they don't even see it. So yes, click rates are super important. We use a lot of different tactics to get click rates. We use very active calls to action. We use buttons. We do use a lot of photos and images, just to make emails a little bit more interesting. Ideally, you really have to get them to open it first; so that is a really good subject line. And so, it has to be punchy, short, to the point, maybe a little interesting or controversial.

Michael O'Neill: Provocative.

Debra Heater: Provocative. We do look at that stuff every week. We look at how our emails are performing, both as opens and clicks. And that directs us to the next week, what we're going to do. It has some bearing on it, at least.

Michael O'Neill: I think they're especially relevant in the automated campaigns as well, because the campaigns we have are complicated, mostly because we're doing something based on a click. And in a lot of cases, we're going back to that campaign, and pulling a report of clicks, to then do something else with that data. And so, in those campaigns, it seems like those clicks are very relevant and important to us.

Debra Heater: And it's active engagement, so that's always good.

Taryn Morrissey: I would also say or recommend that you make sure that the top third of your email has a call to action in it; because if somebody's looking at it within the preview pane, that is the portion of the email that they're seeing. And it's the most important area. It's kind of your most valuable real estate, to make sure that they are clicking or have the ability to click to something, whether it's a button or your header, or most likely... You probably have better luck having it be like a button or a call to action.

Debra Heater: Yeah. And we also use the pre- header as well. So, in conjunction with the subject line, we'll use a pre- header; and that depends on what type of mailing we're sending, whether it's a newsletter or standalone. Those help us sometimes with open, and then that leads to click.

Taryn Morrissey: Is Higher Logic going to add filtering functionality to reports, so we could filter data by platform? On the mailing activity report, I believe you can do that. On the details of the opens, you should be able to add a column. But it wouldn't be on a grand scheme. That just sounds like what you're looking for.

Michael O'Neill: I believe you can add the domain, but I'm not sure that will tell you specifically what you're looking for.

Debra Heater: I would say too, if even if personas are not available on Real Magnet, you can still create them in your AMS, and use them as target groups. They're very useful. And it's very eye- opening too, to see what the heart and head data your members cling to. Right? So what drives them? What motivates them? What are their pain points? It's a great exercise to do, just to learn more about your membership.

Taryn Morrissey: Yeah. So the device information in individual reports is what I was referring to. We do know if somebody's open on a mobile device. So one of the things, Debra, and I actually did as an exercise in part of this, I should mention, is we went through TMT, which is that largest member mailing that we had. And we went through each of those, and we created... We did a search in each of the mailing activity reports for the largest member mailing, because we knew consisted of all the members. And for each of those, we searched who had opened on an Apple device, or who had opened in Apple mail, particularly, and added to target group. And ultimately, what she can do in the future is... So we did, I think for 10, what was it? Seven mailings or something like that. It was the most recent seven mailings. So we have... We know which users potentially open on Apple devices on Apple mail. And she can create a compound of them, and be able to kind of research those further in the future if she wants to; because we know that they were doing that in the past. If you're not using web tracking, Google Analytics is a good substitute, at least if you're appending your links that come from Informs, and go out to your website with Google Analytics tracking code. You should be able, or for Mail Magnet for that matter, you should be able to at least identify in Google Analytics, that those clicks came from email, and know which pages they then visited. So Google Analytics is showing you that you're getting that traffic; web tracking is showing you the exact email addresses of those people. Has anyone noticed that other mail has increased, and Apple mail has decreased in their analytics since the privacy mail went to into effect? Yes. And I think it has to do with that hidden IP address as that one element that I mentioned that was being affected. I think that is putting those into that other category on the reporting. But that being said, the historical data remains intact. So doing those querying of people who had Apple mail in the past, opens on Apple mail in the past, should be sufficient, at least to identify individuals who might potentially be affected.

Michael O'Neill: I'm surprised there's no question about not emailing your unengaged subscribers anymore.

Debra Heater: It's scary.

Michael O'Neill: It scares me. I'm all for it. It waters down your brand.

Debra Heater: If you're continuing to send email to a group that has never opened an email, that's a no- brainer to take them out. It'll boost your rates, and if they don't want it, don't give it to them.

Michael O'Neill: It does skew your engagement, too.

Debra Heater: Yeah.

Taryn Morrissey: Definitely.

Michael O'Neill: You truly don't want to get graveled into engaged members or not. But again, it is scary. You want them; maybe send them the renewal emails.

Taryn Morrissey: Right. Even if you said," Was sent 20 emails, and didn't open any."

Debra Heater: That's a fun exercise too, to see who's not opening anything over... Out of a hundred emails, if they've never opened one... The argument I get often is," Email is free. So why don't we just send it to the most eyeballs that can see it?" But if they're not seeing it, and you're cluttering up their mailbox, they continue to delete it, and not even open it, they're probably saying a bad thing about your organization every time they see an email from you. So I don't know, it's a brand issue, I think.

Taryn Morrissey: Great. Thank you, everybody. That's basically all the time we have for today. Thanks to everybody for attending our session. Have a great rest of your day.


This week on The Member Engagement Show, we are sharing a session from our 2021 Super Forum that includes Taryn Morrissey Buckley, Debra Heater, and Michael O'Neill. Taryn is a CSM here at Higher Logic, Debra is an Outreach Programs Manager, and Michael is a Business Analyst, both at Texas Medical Association. Their chat focuses on the Apple privacy changes and how they can affect email marketing campaigns. Debra and Michael share how these changes helped the Texas Medical Association understand what successful email marketing truly means. Listen now!